As a young Ensign I was told: "If you can learn from your mistakes, you're ahead of the game. If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you've beaten the game."
I have used this a lot too- I can recall someone blowing up at an airport gate agent because of a flight delay (which of course had nothing at all to do with the agent herself), and thinking, “I don’t want to be like that.”
Your caution to not judge others is a wise modification though. Because I certainly have blown up at people for things that weren’t up to them. The fact that I’m mostly much better about that now shouldn’t be a source of superiority or self satisfaction, but a recognition that we’re all out here trying to do our best.
Thanks, Scott! Yes, this is something I have to work on too, so it comes from many years of figuring out how to be aware without being judgmental. It's really hard!
one to remember, thank you - "In the face of everything that happens to you, keep before your eyes those who, when the same things happened to them, were at once distressed, bewildered, and resentful. And where are they now? Nowhere! Well then, do you want to be as they were?
What I keep bumping into with the reverse role model exercise is the follow-up question: become what, exactly?
The Stoics get us to the mirror, look at what you don't want to be. But the mirror doesn't really tell you what you're moving toward. Marcus avoids moral superiority, which is right. But humility without direction is just a softer version of being lost.
And even the compassionate version of this stays fundamentally self-directed. Marcus pitying the wrongdoer, Seneca warning against judgment, both are ultimately in service of my own virtue, my own equanimity. What shifts it for me is when the reverse role model stops being a mirror and starts being a person. Not "what can I learn from his anger" but rather "what broke him?" That move (from self-improvement to genuine other centeredness) feels like it requires something beyond the framework.
I've found the exercise only fully works when there's a positive image of the person you're actually being formed into. For me that's not just a sage.
I'm curious whether that resonates with others or whether the Stoic framework feels sufficient on its own.
Hi Will, as I mentioned in the first paragraph, the Stoics strongly recommend following positive role models. You should be able to find this in most Stoic books. All the ancient Stoics talk about it (for example, Marcus Aurelius, Book I). Some good modern sources for this and other exercises are books by psychotherapists Tim Lebon (365 Ways to Be More Stoic) and Donald Robertson (Stoicism and the Art of Happiness).
Thanks Brittany. I know the Stoics include positive role models, Book I of Marcus is beautiful for that… Some of my favorite writings.
But my question was one level deeper. Even with a positive image, the role model is still a tool for “my” growth. The other person is still a mirror pointed at me.
What I was asking is whether Stoicism can make the other person the actual point, not just the means.
More role models doesn’t solve that. So it’s a question about the ceiling of the framework. In other words, are the models ever truly “other” centered or always about self formation?
As a young Ensign I was told: "If you can learn from your mistakes, you're ahead of the game. If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you've beaten the game."
Love this! What great advice.
I have used this a lot too- I can recall someone blowing up at an airport gate agent because of a flight delay (which of course had nothing at all to do with the agent herself), and thinking, “I don’t want to be like that.”
Your caution to not judge others is a wise modification though. Because I certainly have blown up at people for things that weren’t up to them. The fact that I’m mostly much better about that now shouldn’t be a source of superiority or self satisfaction, but a recognition that we’re all out here trying to do our best.
Thanks, Scott! Yes, this is something I have to work on too, so it comes from many years of figuring out how to be aware without being judgmental. It's really hard!
one to remember, thank you - "In the face of everything that happens to you, keep before your eyes those who, when the same things happened to them, were at once distressed, bewildered, and resentful. And where are they now? Nowhere! Well then, do you want to be as they were?
Meditations, 7.58"
Thank you for this, it made my day. I love the caution, use it, but wisely.
What I keep bumping into with the reverse role model exercise is the follow-up question: become what, exactly?
The Stoics get us to the mirror, look at what you don't want to be. But the mirror doesn't really tell you what you're moving toward. Marcus avoids moral superiority, which is right. But humility without direction is just a softer version of being lost.
And even the compassionate version of this stays fundamentally self-directed. Marcus pitying the wrongdoer, Seneca warning against judgment, both are ultimately in service of my own virtue, my own equanimity. What shifts it for me is when the reverse role model stops being a mirror and starts being a person. Not "what can I learn from his anger" but rather "what broke him?" That move (from self-improvement to genuine other centeredness) feels like it requires something beyond the framework.
I've found the exercise only fully works when there's a positive image of the person you're actually being formed into. For me that's not just a sage.
I'm curious whether that resonates with others or whether the Stoic framework feels sufficient on its own.
Hi Will, as I mentioned in the first paragraph, the Stoics strongly recommend following positive role models. You should be able to find this in most Stoic books. All the ancient Stoics talk about it (for example, Marcus Aurelius, Book I). Some good modern sources for this and other exercises are books by psychotherapists Tim Lebon (365 Ways to Be More Stoic) and Donald Robertson (Stoicism and the Art of Happiness).
Thanks Brittany. I know the Stoics include positive role models, Book I of Marcus is beautiful for that… Some of my favorite writings.
But my question was one level deeper. Even with a positive image, the role model is still a tool for “my” growth. The other person is still a mirror pointed at me.
What I was asking is whether Stoicism can make the other person the actual point, not just the means.
More role models doesn’t solve that. So it’s a question about the ceiling of the framework. In other words, are the models ever truly “other” centered or always about self formation?